5/101

[thoke]

5/101*

I cleaned my trough
and I paid my way.
No sabre-toothed
church man or towel-headed
house cat will ever chew
my socks for that.

You can call it youthful
or glacé cherry-eyed and loosely hopeful,
But I’ve seen a wood elf
and I can’t cope with Christmas.

_________________
*See '1/101': viewtopic.php?f=20&t=8708

(This is a defence of stupid infatuation.)

[David]

But I’ve seen a wood elf
and I can’t cope with Christmas.

Worth the reading for that alone, Ben. But not just for that.

Having perceptual problems with towel-headed / house cat and glacé cherry-eyed, though. Is the latter something like doe-eyed?

Cheers

David

[John G]

I like this, probably the best of the 5 so far.

Unlike David, I had no problems with the towel headed cat.

[David]

Unlike David, I had no problems with the towel headed cat.

John, what is it? I'm getting the strangest images in my mind at the moment.

[John G]

I'm thinking something like this (but with towel not a fab top hat)

[arunansu]

Don't know why I'm liking this piece! Is it for the "towel-headed house cat"? Maybe...
"But I’ve seen a wood elf
and I can’t cope with Christmas."
- Magical lines.

[thoke]

Thanks for the comments.

Having perceptual problems with towel-headed / house cat ...

I think by "towel-headed house cat" I meant something like "bigoted, boring bastard". A house cat is a boring bastard. The towel image comes from the Saudi royal family, and while I know that 'towel-head' is considered to be a racist term used only by morons, to describe arabs, I am not trying to express any racial hatred by using that term. I just think the Saudi royals are bigots, and that their head dresses undeniably look like tea towels.

...and glacé cherry-eyed, though. Is the latter something like doe-eyed?

Yeah, something like that. I suppose I think glace cherries are childish. Nice, though.

Thanks,
Ben

[Leigh]

I reall enjoyed this, lots of scope for interpretation; perhaps due to its incoherent nature? I say incoherant in that it is very far from obvious what specifically you are talking about, but that is in no way meant as a criticism, it's what I'm into. Definately the best one so far. Speculation on my part but in the first stanza you refer to a "Sabre toothed churchman" and a "towel headed house cat", I wonder, when you first wrote it was it "Sabre toothed house cat" and "Towel headed chuchman" and you decided to swap them around? I like it the way you have it now better but I was just wondering.

[thoke]

I reall enjoyed this, lots of scope for interpretation; perhaps due to its incoherent nature?

Is this how you respond to all negative criticism?

If my poem was incoherent, there wouldn't be any scope for interpretation, because all coherent interpretations would be false.

Speculation on my part but in the first stanza you refer to a "Sabre toothed churchman" and a "towel headed house cat", I wonder, when you first wrote it was it "Sabre toothed house cat" and "Towel headed chuchman" and you decided to swap them around?

No. I had a nightmare when I was little about a big man from church who had sabre teeth.

Thanks,
Ben

[Leigh]

I'm not sure I understand exactly what you mean. I'm responding to your poem. What I suspect you are getting at is that you think I'm deliberately praising your work for the same reasons you criticise mine. Even if this were true, and it is not, I wouldn't be able to do that if there was no textual basis for my apraissal. This peice is far from explicit concerning its subject matter, which it seems to me is what you thought was lacking in my work. To be honest I'm surprised you have such a specific definition of it yourself.

What is actually happening is that every time I read one of your crits on my work, and then read some of yours, you seem to be writing in a similar style or with similar motivesto me, and let me be clear: I see this as nothing more than coincidence, I do not think you are trying to mimic. I'm usually very surprised by this coincidence because I would expect your style to be the reverse of mine: to be explicit in detail where mine asks the reade to speculate. The reverse is usually, but not always, true: your work also requires quite alot of work from the reader, which in my view is an excelent quality, I hate it when a writer feels the need to be explicit, to expain every facet is surely to take away the mystery. Surely it is also a falshood as in life very little is fully explained

[thoke]

I'm not sure I understand exactly what you mean.

I mean: why can't you let one negative comment go? Why are you trying so hard to convince me that my criticism was unfounded? What do you expect will happen if you succeed... do you think I'll suddenly start to really enjoy your poem's apparent lack of any intended meaning?

I didn't like your poem, and that isn't my fault.

This peice is far from explicit concerning its subject matter, which it seems to me is what you thought was lacking in my work.

Your poem seemed to have no explicit or implicit meaning. Lots of good poems lack explicit meaning, and that's fine. Yours goes a step too far: it makes no sense.

What is actually happening is that every time I read one of your crits on my work, and then read some of yours, you seem to be writing in a similar style or with similar motivesto me, and let me be clear: I see this as nothing more than coincidence, I do not think you are trying to mimic. I'm usually very surprised by this coincidence because I would expect your style to be the reverse of mine: to be explicit in detail where mine asks the reade to speculate. The reverse is usually, but not always, true: your work also requires quite alot of work from the reader, which in my view is an excelent quality, I hate it when a writer feels the need to be explicit, to expain every facet is surely to take away the mystery. Surely it is also a falshood as in life very little is fully explained

I have nothing against your intentions when it comes to writing poetry. I just think you failed to meet them on one occasion. Your poem was not mysterious, it was nonsensical. Which is fine. I often fail to write good poetry. What I don't do is respond to one brief criticism with a lengthy rant, and then bang on and on about it for days.

Ben

[Leigh]

I assume you realise it is impossible to have a conversation yourself, and if I'm not mistaken I think your replies have more the tone of a rant than mine, I see this as simply engaging in discourse.

On the "poem makes no sense thing" ever heard of Dada? If you have then how do you allow for it's active lack of sense, its deliberate nonsensical nature? Is dadaism not art?

As ever, feel free not to relpy If you feel I'm banging on, debate's not for everyone I suppose.

[David]

Ben, Leigh, I'm calling time on this one, lads, although you are of course free to explore these matters - without the ad hominem element, ideally - in Poetry Discussion if you want. In the absence of any further comments on the poem itself, and not on its reception, I'll lock this if I have to.

Don't make me put my phaser on stun here.

[El Wow!]

thought this was a fab read, real good, and even liked john's cat too.
El

[snowphi]

I've decided I must like crap poetry

Well 'I can't cope with christmas' either so what can one expect.

When I first came on this site it was to help me deal with criticism - it's really working I'm loving the criticism for Thoke - I only hope my work elicits such ardent discussion.

[thoke]

I've decided I must like crap poetry

Why? Because this is crap and you like it?

Ben

[snowphi]

I've decided I must like crap poetry

Why? Because this is crap and you like it?

Ben

Well you decided it was crap and I'm not an experienced critic.

I like it. I like the dichotomy of emotions it ellicits

[Jasper]

Hello T

I cleaned my trough
and I paid my way.
No sabre-toothed
church man or towel-headed
house cat will ever chew
my socks for that.

You can call it youthful
or glacé cherry-eyed and loosely hopeful,
But I’ve seen a wood elf
and I can’t cope with Christmas.

Well, I think it's crap too... but good crap! However, it may come off as a bit sexist and your alliteration could be much better. Especially the possessive of trough in L1... maybe trotters is a better word there than trough (there's more than one pig in every trough lol)? Am also wondering why you didn't use church mouse (sexless) rather than man in L3. And that second use of I in L2 is annoying. Socks needs to jocks (maybe) too, I feel, as political correctness is a huge pain to us bums. But then sock is closer to x-mas in stockings, ain't it just *smirk*

S2, L2 is over modified and the point is moot as such. Consider:

You can call it youthful or
some cherry-eyed hopeful.But
I've seen the wood nymph and ... not sure about the and here but I like the sonic effect of it.
can’t cope with Christmas.

Nymph, for me only, seems more effete and fitting than Elf btw.

Cool write

J

I presume you're an atheist and single rofl

[thoke]

Well, I think it's crap too... but good crap! However, it may come off a bit sexist and your alliteration could be much better.

Sexist? How come? The only (metaphorical) reference to a female is the phrase "wood elf". I chose that phrase to suggest a thin, pale, elven woman. I suppose that might evoke the idea of a delicate, weak, subordinate creature. But that wasn't my intention. Some women just are thin and pale. Elves are also wise and powerful, much as women are or ought to be.

As for the alliteration, there isn't any! I could add some, if that's what you mean. But I don't feel the need.

Especially the possessive of trough in L1... maybe trotters is a better word there than trough (there's more than one pig in every trough lol)? And that second use of I in L2 is annoying. Socks needs to jocks (maybe) too I feel as political correctness is a huge pain to us bums. But then sock is closer to x-mas in stockings, ain't it just *smirk*

S2, L2 is over modified and the point is moot as such. Consider:

You can call it youthful or
some cherry-eyed hopeful.But
I've seen the wood nymph and ... not sure about the and here but I like the sonic effect if it.
can’t cope with Christmas.

Nymph, for me only, seems more effete and fitting than Elf btw.

Cool write

J

I think you're mad. But thanks for the comment.

Ben

[Jasper]

Moi, mad? Everyone's crazy at 6am!

Ok then, alliteration was my poor word choice of the day! Let's now say word choice and line ends - eh?

J

[backinblack]

Pretty awesome little poem, gave me some cool images.
Thanks for the read
BinB.