The Wordman

[Derek]

THE WORD MAN

2.27 a.m. 20th March 2003

I am just like you, i feel it too,
As i wander off thoughtless into what is new,

I sit on the grass where i once knelt,
Where i would write a bit of how i once felt,
I'd write of my sweetness and how it did melt,
Even I am not interested in how i then felt,

Even the strongest at times feel weak,
Some are good to listen and some are good to speak,
But our sypathies only go so far,
If we know not the weak then we are what we are,

I have shared thoughts and i gave you my heart,
It interests people and if printed it's art,
As long as you read I'll continue to write,
But don't think wrong of me if i can't get it right.

Copyright D.G.Allan

[Asbo1]

"Even the strongest at times feel weak." Respect mate.Nice line.
You got something here.If its printed its art.Interesting thought.
What is poetry for? Anyhting? Is there a point in poetry?
Sometimes I think not. I honestly wouldn't carry on if I thought my pieces would only ever be read by poets.Or just read full stop.My joy is in the telling and the hearing.In making them come alive.
Sorry Derek...enough about me.I liked your poem a lot mate.Give me a rhyming poem anyday.

[Derek]

Thanks very much. I like your opinions. I will be looking for your poems. I was worried when i started as i am not good at living and not educated but you can not be taught how to be a poet at University, you are born with it. It was when a student took one of my poems to a reading of past poets and read it out, it stood out and i was in a whole new world, respect from the educated. I have no money to buy great things but i believe i have a great heart to be something great. You have to believe in yourself. I am all i know and i do nothing even know everything about myself. I wish you well in all of your adventures.

[Bombadil]

"And now we add self-pity to our list of frailties..."

[Derek]

We all need a little self pitty to move on. I feel i should no longer be honest now. Should my ways of writing not be known? My biography would make poor reading if i was to leave out the reason I became what i have become.

[Bombadil]

Ah, true. Being meek is one thing, being weakened by it is another entirely.

Be humble, tis good. But don't pity yourself. It's a waste of time.

[Derek]

Thank you. You seem like an educated person. You can teach me a little of what i lack. I will have a few more poems on the site, you can comment on them. I know i have an audience, every poet has an audience and we will see if you become a part of mine or if i become a part of yours.

[susie g]

Derek, please don't make the mistake that so many people do of assuming that an educated person is necessarily right. The sacred halls of academia are great places to learn from academics, but life skills are learnt through experience of living. Your poems seem to me to be based in reality, from your own experiences. Surely this is valuable in its own right? Surely any form of writing has to be based on what you know? How you then express that, craft the words,phrases and form the patterns on the paper are what you can learn from others, but don't sacrifice your methods or views because you feel "uneducated". Have a look at a real uneducated poet from around Wordsworth's time, John Clare.

Best wishes,
Sue

[Bombadil]

You seem gifted with invective....

Do I seem educated? Hooray for me, I suppose. I am not conventionally so. I have no college degree. I have no apprenticeships. I have only a desire to learn and improve. If that makes me educated, then I should be glad to be called thus.

Hmmm...

[susie g]

I have made no claims or pretensions about my own education neither have I made disparaging comments about anyone's emotional state... "self-pity/meek".....

My understanding of constructive cricism is that it is to do with making useful observations about structure, technique, use of vocabulary: if it doesn't work for you, can you explain why; can you suggest an altenative that might fit better; not to diminish the writer's emotions which are entirely subjective and personal to him/her,just because you dislike/disagree/disapprove/don't empathise with them does not make them wrong, nor does it give you the right to mock...... which you appear to be doing.

I wasn't aware that anything I wrote was full of invective, I thought I was making a constructive observation that no-one should feel intimidated by another's comments; that one person's emotional response is valid regardless of what another, more forceful,person might think or say.

If I have dreadfully misjudged and caused offence, then I am more than happy to apologise. I have no desire to quarrel, but I also have no desire to see someone being intimidated.

Truce?

Sue

[seeksthebalance]

Hey all,

I haven't checked the site for a week or so now due to a surfing trip in cornwall (where the internet has yet to reach). I'm amazed to see such hostility towards derek in both this thread and the previous. Bombadil I know you have a tendency to ge irate about things so I'm not gonna say any more than I agree with this comment...

not to diminish the writer's emotions which are entirely subjective and personal to him/her,just because you dislike/disagree/disapprove/don't empathise with them

If you can't help the guy with anything other than saying 'it rhymes so I don't like it' then leave it for others to criticise... constructively.

Now that's off my chest.

Derek,

Welcome to the forum,

This poem seems to be a response to the harsh judgements you were subjected to after your last post, and for the most part I like and respect your effort. The only exceptions were a slightly forced rhyme in the line

I'd write of my sweetness and how it did melt

and a loss of sense (which is perhaps down to my lack of ability to interpret it) in the line...

If we know not the weak then we are what we are

Please clarify this if you can.

One more criticism that has been given before but I'd like to expand upon it (as I feel this is perhaps where pseud and bombadil have let themselves down as critics). You write the time and date before a poem. This seems pointless if the time and date have no relevance to the content of the poem. 'If it's printed it's art', but it does not matter when, where or why it was created/printed. I think you are taking something away from your poetry by pinning to a certain point in time. For me all poetry and all other forms of artistic expression are timeless.

To leave on a positive note I think the final stanza is brilliant.

Hope this is clear and useful, if not please ask for further clarification.

Regards,

Seeks

[azathoth]

just a tip to people who feel compelled to comment on this brief controversy: read what others have said before you repeat the same pointless generalizations and comments.
i was interested in the threads but its becoming confusing when different people keep repeating each other.

And personally, when it came to a poetry reading recently, i looked at my best poems on here, both the ones that received the "best" criticism and the ones i liked inspite of "bad" criticism...
and they all fucking sucked. I think it would be better for everyone if they became MORE critical. nothings worse than realizing something you thought well of was trash, but i think its better to realize sooner rather than later...


and about the poem!
everything else aside, its pretty decently well crafted, conveying you're point quite clearly. except where you fall into use of weak and obscure phrases, the strongest aspect of this poem in my opinion is the directness, so i wouldnt dilute that quality with any metaphors, obscurity, or cliche, specifically: the first stanza seems too vague to me, and the third stanza is so replete with pithy triteness that it is hard to read as something original. besides these points it sounds and looks decent
"keep it up"
etc.
~aza

[Bombadil]

I weary of this. I shall from now on only critique those who can actually withstand my evidently overbearing personality.

Rot.

[azathoth]

no man, people have to realize that they can't look at their work with a "blind spot". even if they recieve criticism about things they find irrellevent, the reception of any kind of criticism opens one's "eyes"
besides, "if you dish it out, you should be able to take it"
i'll think of more cliches later!

[camus]

I've missed some "Heated Debates" I see.

Jolly good.

I'll dive in and say:

Fair play to anyone admittedly "not good at living and not educated" to use poetry as their chosen form of expression, Poetry's handy like that. It is a medium that can be used to lay common ground and unite.......no really!

That said I think it is slightly delusional to believe you are "Born" a poet, and that "you can not be taught" poetry.

You can be born with the passion, even insight, but without the tools of the trade your efforts will be lacking, no matter how intuitive you may be.

Although lately I myself have been fine tuning my tools, trying to anyway, but alas seemed to have lost my passion and insight on the way! Oh well back to the plastering board. Working class analogy over...............

Good to be back.

[pseud]

camus - aye and good to have you back.

Azathoth - couldn't agree more about the "MORE critical" notion.

[dillingworth]

better to be more critical and possibly piss someone off temporarily than to let that person continue being mediocre when they could be so much better. derek i think your poem has potential but maybe you should try not writing in rhyme, free yourself from that necessity and see what happens to the way you express yourself.

[Bombadil]

Oh, believe me, I won’t cease being critical and I probably won’t stop pissing people off. I just won’t be dignifying certain posters with comments or even reads. Don’t worry, a whiny pussy here or there isn’t going to run me off.

Keith