Keats or Wordsworth?

How many poets does it take to change a light bulb?
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jisbell00
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Tue Jun 06, 2023 10:20 am

Moving right along, we come to Poetry Challenge Number Three: Keats or Wordsworth? I've decided to enter both into the lists with a sonnet. :)


When I have Fears That I May Cease to Be, BY JOHN KEATS

When I have fears that I may cease to be
Before my pen has gleaned my teeming brain,
Before high-pilèd books, in charactery,
Hold like rich garners the full ripened grain;
When I behold, upon the night’s starred face,
Huge cloudy symbols of a high romance,
And think that I may never live to trace
Their shadows with the magic hand of chance;
And when I feel, fair creature of an hour,
That I shall never look upon thee more,
Never have relish in the faery power
Of unreflecting love—then on the shore
Of the wide world I stand alone, and think
Till love and fame to nothingness do sink.


The World Is Too Much With Us, BY WILLIAM WORDSWORTH

The world is too much with us; late and soon,
Getting and spending, we lay waste our powers;—
Little we see in Nature that is ours;
We have given our hearts away, a sordid boon!
This Sea that bares her bosom to the moon;
The winds that will be howling at all hours,
And are up-gathered now like sleeping flowers;
For this, for everything, we are out of tune;
It moves us not. Great God! I’d rather be
A Pagan suckled in a creed outworn;
So might I, standing on this pleasant lea,
Have glimpses that would make me less forlorn;
Have sight of Proteus rising from the sea;
Or hear old Triton blow his wreathèd horn.


NB Keats died at 25.
Morpheus
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Tue Jun 06, 2023 11:48 am

Do you mean generally or just based on these sonnets? I prefer the Wordsworth sonnet because it's more outward looking. Nothing wrong with the Keats one though.
jisbell00
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Tue Jun 06, 2023 11:53 am

Hi Morpheus,

Glad you're enjoying these! I think it makes sense to begin with the pieces posted here, since to bring in the poet's entire corpus is a daunting task. But it's true, I am also curious as to how people feel about these various poets in general.

I admit I had this somewhat in mind in posting, featuring the late great Tina Turner:



Cheers,
John
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Leaf
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Tue Jun 06, 2023 12:28 pm

Greetings, John!

Keats for BirdBrains on this occasion, thank-coos. This sonnet was a favourite of a friend who was very dear to us, who passed away almost three years ago. And my own health is precarious, of course. Keats himself has always been something of a friend; I do struggle with his longer poems, as I do with longer poems generally, but often that has to do with the work schedule. We are simply lacking in time (*v*)

The Wordsworth sonnet here is accomplished, but I have my usual problem with 'we', as though everyone's experiences are the same. It's interesting how some folks are so ruled by particular ways of thinking, unable to construct their own worlds, having a need to own (*v*)

Cheerie,
F & (^v^)
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CalebPerry
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Tue Jun 06, 2023 2:44 pm

Keats has never impressed me. The language he used and his subject matter just struck me as too ... it's hard to say ... stilted and self-absorbed. Apparently, Keats has lots of imitators, and that is something I never understood. I like Wordsworth's poem much more -- more down to earth.
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jisbell00
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Tue Jun 06, 2023 3:47 pm

Hi FLiss and Coo, hi Caleb,

Hmm – strong reactions to Keats and Wordsworth! I like them both and shall try not to take sides.
Fliss: I agree, Keats’s own life was not easy and that gives him appeal for many readers, your friend among them, and me for that matter. My heart goes out to the immensely gifted young man who died at twenty-five. Some of his earlier long poems I find slow going in patches – Endymion – but he was barely out of his teens, and largely I think self-taught. And late Wordsworth can be very slow going.
I also think you make a great point about we, which can be exclusionary while claiming to be the opposite. Wordsworth uses it a fair bit, Keats and others I think less so.
Caleb: Keats once said load every seam with ore, and I sometimes find he tries to jam too much into the page, it’s like drinking whipped cream. But they were all very influenced by Shakespeare, who does much the same. Keats I think in an absolute sense is among the greatest of the Romantic poets. Most wrote young, but he has no later stuff to judge him by. it’s quite an achievement. He does get self-absorbed in his longer works especially, to my mind, but Fliss’s point about the Wordsworth “we” is very well taken. Turning to the individual poem as you do at the end, I think both these poems are brilliant! Keats speaks to me somewhat as Milton does, because of his bio, but th Wordsworth is great stuff IMO, despite the we.

Cheers,
John
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Leaf
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Tue Jun 06, 2023 7:16 pm

Hi John!

Opening up the discussion, we like both poets too; the Keats sonnet just strikes me as stronger here. I haven't made it through the longer poems because I get distracted by work worries. I'm glad you appreciate the point about 'we'. Wordsworth is interesting; I once stayed just outside Grasmere with my family and visited Dove Cottage with Mrs T. She showed me Dorothy Wordsworth's diaries once; those were interesting too (^v^)

Cheerie,
F & (^v^)
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Wed Jun 07, 2023 12:52 am

I'm enjoying these couplings John. The Donne, and especially the Blake poem, were more obvious decisions. Keats' odes, and some of his aesthetic, have certainly influenced my writing. I understand his sentiment here, but word choices like charactery I find off-putting. The Wordsworth poem has a winning image for me with the winds gathered up like sleeping flowers, though I find it ironic he closes the poem with classical references.

Bw

Phil
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Wed Jun 07, 2023 6:46 am

Greetings, FLiss and Coo, greetings, Phil!

I would have to call this a split decision! I like that you both see merit in both poets, because I feel the same way and it’s always nice to share one’s opinions with others one respects. 😊 I agree, Fliss, the long Keats poems can be a bit of a challenge – I think Wordsworth is better in that vein, but then, he had more time. He is quite good at being measured. I’ve been to the Lake District as well and it is a splendid place to go walking and compose poetry. Dorothy gets a lot more credit these days. Phil, it’s good to hear you are enjoying this series! I’ve not quite run out yet. Keats is tremendous, and his impact is I think worthwhile, but you are quite right, there are points in this poem where one feels Keats at work getting rhyme (charactery) and meter (what is it – winged with two syllables?) in order. A little strain, which Wordsworth doesn’t seem to have. OTOH, he’s speaking of his early death, and he was right about that. I think the classical references at the end were Wordsworth’s only access to the re-magification of the world, if you’ll allow me to invent a word. He wants magic back and this is how he gets there. The Romantics were much more Classical than they are sometimes given credit for, all steeped in Classical education, even the somewhat self-taught Keats. But when Keats writes “Much have I traveled in the realms of gold,” he’s really only been to Britain at the time, so the UK is the obvious reference – a realm indeed!

Cheerie,
John
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Wed Jun 07, 2023 7:18 am

To be fair to Keats, and a good strategy for learning, he was probably at the 'imitation' stage (Shakespeare). I did note the be/charactery v Wordsworth's be/lea/sea. Keats, unfortunately, has cloudy/faery to amplify that unpleasing chime.
jisbell00
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Wed Jun 07, 2023 7:29 am

He also has high twice. But he didn't have the time for editing that Wordsworth had - several decades!

Cheers,
John
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Wed Jun 07, 2023 7:35 am

I quite like the hugh/high. In workshop world a critter would say 'REPETITION' followed by an equally loud too many 'MODIFIERS'😂
jisbell00
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Wed Jun 07, 2023 7:54 am

I'm trying to use more repetition myself! I don't do enough of it. But a 3-syllable "high-piled" seems a bit OTT to me, in Keats's way.

Consider is my fave workshop word.

Cheers,
John
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Leaf
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Wed Jun 07, 2023 7:29 pm

Repetition may be beneficial for emphasis, suggest members of Coo & Co, now in copyediting mode. When querying authors about it, I usually add, 'unless it is used for emphasis here?', otherwise they become cross with me :lol:

The Lake District is indeed splendid for walking and composing poetry. Would it be accurate to say that Wordsworth enjoyed a rather leisurely life? 'Much have I traveled' was the first Keats poem I read, during the Eng. Lit. A-Level (^v^)

Cheerie,
F & (^v^)
jisbell00
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Thu Jun 08, 2023 6:26 am

Brilliant method for dealing with prickly authors! Props!

Yup, I think a leisurely life is true to Wordsworth, really, when it's added up. I should maybe have posted the Keats Chapman's Homer sonnet, it's amazing.

Cheerie,
John
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Leaf
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Thu Jun 08, 2023 12:16 pm

Thank-coos kindly, John; we appreciate the props (^v^)

The family holiday near Grasmere included a walk to Rydal Water one morning. Mrs T said she had the impression the Wordsworths mostly just walked about a bit, ate, wrote, chatted with 'that madcap Coleridge' when he popped by. She likes the Homer sonnet and has some fondness for Keats, thinking him a pleasant young man (^v^)

We shall return for H or H later (*v*)

Cheerie,
F & (^v^)
jisbell00
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Thu Jun 08, 2023 1:02 pm

There's a quite nice film on Keats told mostly by Fanny Brawne. Mrs T's analysis of the two sounds to the point on both counts from the little I know.

Cheerie,
John
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Leaf
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Thu Jun 08, 2023 7:22 pm

We have seen this film! Mrs T knows quite a lot about poets and their lives (^v^)

Cheerie,
F & (^v^)
jisbell00
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Thu Jun 08, 2023 7:26 pm

Woo-hoo! And woo-hoo again!

Cheers,
John
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Leaf
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Fri Jun 09, 2023 12:25 pm

Yeah! (^v^)
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